Although, this novel seems dangerous or almost dark and sinister, yet it strangely compelling with energy and life. This novel is filled with exploitation and chilling narratives. Throughout the novel, Valentine is haunted by harsh childhood and his momentary, depressing lapses into hope. Valentin is predatory in nature and seems dangerous to all he encounters. As a thug and a sociopath, Valentine has the ability to exploit all characters he meets. Frank almost is a special circumstance because he is predisposed to unexpected accident and dangers, so thus he seems much more likely to fall into the traps cunningly set by Valentine. Obviously, Isobel who is Valentine’s lover seems to be affected greatly by Valentine’s exploitive nature as well. Yet, the characters that Valentine is exploiting seem to be showing signs of going back to a new life—a better life—while with every glimpse of hope for something more that Valentin is exposed to is naught but another dismal loss of a chance to do something more.

Like ALex said before me, we know that Valentin's life has been full of devistation and depression. From this he creates his exploitive personality. When he explains that he and Frank must be the "give" in the system, Frank says he understands. I don't think Frank wants to be the "give" like Valentin ried to convince him to be. Frank does not truly want to loan Valentin the $1,000 for the cigarettes. I think that what Valentin said is not only the exploitation of Frank, but of all characters through the ways they connect in this story. This even connects through to Beverly, by being Madeline's sister and Colleen's mother. If Colleen wouldn't have taken the money that Frank had to give to Valentin she could have avoided the exploitation. But, without her taking the money there would be a lack of story. Just as Colleen gets roped in, so does Isobel just by being Valentin's lover. All the characters in some way are affected by Frank and Valentin's exploitations.

I found Madeleine to be the most interesting character in this novel because of the way that she rejected her marriage despite her intense love for Marty. She decided that she would not be able to live the life that she wanted as Marty's wife. I think that this relates to what Valentin says to Frank in that Madeleine tries to take advantage of the 'give' in the system of a traditional life for a woman. It is the small things in her marriage that she feels keep her from being present in her own life, such as driving the children to their activites. Moore writes, "She doesn't remember thinking, what about the children? Let Marty worry about the children, is what she thought." In this way Madeleine exploits her own husband in order to leave her marriage to pursue her career in film making. It seems, though, that she ultimately regrets this decision and wishes to be with Marty again. She has vivid memories of her times with Marty which were the best times of her life. Madeleine also takes advantage of Isobel in that she does not care about her as an individual but only as someone who is going to help her film to be great. This is evident when they are at lunch and Madeleine dominates the conversation and does not allow Isobel to say what she wants to say. Valentin is a character who clearly takes advantage of every situation he is in and every person that he meets. Madeleine subtly exploits people and situations in order to accomplish what she wishes to accomplish.

When Valenitn tells Frank that they are alike he is proably only allluding to the businessman nature of both of them. However in regards to exploiting the "give" Valentin stands alone in regards to Frank. Valentin frequently within the novel can be seen time and time again exploiting the give whether it's taking advantage of people in chess games or taking advantage of the emotional and economical status of Isobel by having her burn down her house for the insurance money. However, Valentin isn't the only chrachter in the novel that systematically exploits the give .Colleen has a nature that causes her to continue on her plan to the end no matter what. And everytime she follows through with anything it's always a situation where she is taking or destroying other peoples things like when she stole Frank's money to go to Louisana or even when she vandalized the foerstry equipment because after seeing the guard and knowing full well she probably would get caught she follows through with the vandalism. Colleen attacks the give argueably more tenaciously than Valentin.

I have to agree with Sarah when I say the the effects of Valentin's exploitations effects many of the characters in the novel. Also, the idea that the characters take advantage of this "give" in the system, especially Madeleine, is something we can all aggree. Valentin seems as though he is centralized in the fact that he affects Isobel his lover, and affects Frank, which in turn affects Colleen. Its almost like forward cycles, or a full circle that is happening here. Frank says he "understands," but i'm not sure if he truly does. I think that he is just caught under Valentins predatory nature, and Valentin's intentions of exploitation. Valentin's quote definitely reveals much of his internal struggle with his haunted childhood and the harsh things that have happened to him in the past that made him the "thug" he is.

As we talked about this passage in class, someone brought up the idea that all the character are guilty of same thing as Valentin but maybe to a lesser degree. I completely agree with this idea and I think it is something that applies to society in general. We notice weak points in the people we encounter and especially with those close to us, we know how to pressure them into the things we want. I have to agree with Erin about Madeleine. She was without a doubt the most intriguing and my favorite character in the novel. There was a rooted sense of confliction within her that was impossible for me to ignore. Looking at her past with Marty and her present lifestyle I really got the sense that she was the type of woman that would push you. She would make it impossible for you to like or hate her because she was always pushing at either end of the spectrum. Because of this, she lacked intimate relationships but maintained herself as a successful woman.

I think that this quote has to apply to anyone, within the novel or not. Everyone tries to manipulate situations just for their own interests, and Valentin is a very extreme example of the exploitive type (in dealing with Frank and Isobel, or even just taking advantage of strangers like chess players). Most of the characters in this novel are hard-headed enough (and to a much lesser degree, Frank) to be aware of the exploitive nature of people, and this is where the give comes in. Like others have said, there are numerous times where Madeline tries to take advantage of this give, especially in relation to Marty. There is one passage on page 88 where she keeps going back and forth between her desire for him, and her desire to use him. "What she really wants right now is to spend an afternoon with Marty.... Lately, shes been thinking of hitting him up for a loan.... She misses him fiercely." Exploitation is part of her being, for her, it comes hand and hand with love.

"Finding the give in the system" is something I'd argue that all the characters in the book do. I've talked in both classes about Mr. Duffy, I still find it unbelievable that he would, in a courtroom, presumably under oath, announce his intentions to circumvent the law and have Colleen's transgressions follow her for the rest of her days... of course, it's only unbelievable if you disregard the fact that the judge was biased against Colleen, too.

My favorite example of finding the give in the system comes in the supermarket. I don't dare read into Lisa Moore's portrayal of the disabled, in this scene or with Layola, but I love it when young Colleen parrot's the fat wheelchair lady and tells Beverly that she's a piece of shit.

It's remarkable, the intuition people have for finding the give in the system, even at such a young age. What a perfect read by Colleen. I get the feeling that she can sense that her mother's been sucker punched (devastated, maybe) by the insult, and what's Colleen do? She kicks Bev while she's down! Her mother's standing there in the shopping centre, already having been mortified by hitting the wheelchair lady and being insulted by her, and Colleen repeats the insult.

Bam! Beverly is no longer Mother with a capital M. It's an odd thing, in that parent-child relationship, the first time the child realizes that the parent's absolute authority isn't so absolute. It wouldn't be the first time Colleen tweaked her mother, that's for sure, But the discovery of her ability to do so had to be key. What good came of it? I might save that for my term paper.

I think John Rubin is definitely right when he says that every single person (fictional or real) exploits, to a certain degree, the "give." Whether it's for material gain or emotional gain or for a certain desired outcome to a situation. But let's not forget that this is bad. Valentin is a bad guy. Granted, he (like everyone) is just a victim of assorted circumstances which formed his character, but I like to think that it's about recognizing your circumstances and trying to transcend them. No one has to exploit anything, it would be nice if we couldn't. I wonder what would happen if everyone stopped exploiting at the same time.

Most everyone's post thus far have definite validity and similar theories to my own
regarding exploitations role in Alligator. I especially agree with Kristen's post about
everybody being guilty of exploitation but at differing degrees and intensities.
Valentin's character is very domineering and bold. For me I think Valentin was the
easiest character to draw up in my mind. I don't know if that was because of Moore's
descriptions or text about him or if he just has such a strong personality compared to
the others but I think the way she writes about him makes him appear the absolute
manipulator even though every character around him is doing something deceiving or
exploitive themselves, although it's not as easy to notice because they aren't as
expected to do wrong as Valentin is. I doubt most readers picked up on Colleen exploiting
her mother like Eric posted about. Sure it's obvious she treats her poorly but I'd be
very few people considered her behavior "exploitive" when if you think about it now thats
exactly what it was.
I found this quote fairly ironic because I think in saying this to Frank, Valentin is
still someone exploiting him..making him think Valentin is a good guy or on his side. I
think because of Valentin's past he's pretty unstable and fails to truly understand his
own emotions and thus has no control over his agression or exploitive personality.
Valentin and most all humans exploit and manipulate situations to their benefit in ways
that are blatant (like Valentin's beating Isobel and telling Frank he's going to take his
stand) or in ways similar to an alligator where the exploitation creeps upon the victim
only to reek unsuspected havoc later on.

This quotation portrays the malicious attitude that has been a consistent theme of Valentin's throughout this entire novel. The novel itself is filled with tales about deception. Specifically Valentin who was raised animalistically and showed no signs of leading a normal life. Valentin is the kind of person who takes care of his number one; himself and as a result is harmful to those around him. Alex Link describe's it best when he says, "As a thug and a sociopath, Valentin has the ability to exploit all characters he meets." In the given quote, Valentin is taking advantage of the naive Frank. He is not aware of the intentions of Valentin and therefore his Danny Devito in "Casino" tone is not as obvious to him. The only person who can contain Valentin himself is Isobel. This is exemplified perfectly on page 184, "He thought of Isobel coming through the front door and kicking the sandals off and walking barefoot into the kitchen. He thought of her crushing ice in her blender. She had tall glasses for summer drinks and he thought of how her skin looked flushed after a day of rehearsal." This passage illustrates one of the few humanistic emotions that Valentin possesses. She is his only shot at a normal life, and they both recognize this. She seems to be infatuated with his inconsistent behavior; the way many women are in to the "ass-hole" type. They compliment each other very well. When Valentin tries to take over Frank's hot-dog stand, he is not assuming this same sort of humility.

the book tells so much about the exploitations Here is an example of it. I know the boy in the Kitchen, Veronica says, and i tell him you don't have much time, so he does me a favor. Veronica has an accent i don't recognize. She winks at me and puts down the plate of kitchen and a bowl of gravy and a finger bowl and i'm so hungry. The chicken is moist and good.

soon I 'll be sitting in the place while it turn circle on the runway waiting for clearance to take off. They'll turn off the cabin lights and the flight attendant will touch the overhead bins with with her finger all the way up the aisle. I can' leave swiss Chalet without paying because this is an airport and how easy it would be to get caught. But once I'm through customs i'm through and it's so busy here, a table full of women in purdah, another table of five pilot, there 's a toddler screaming her head her. I should be able to keep going for a while on Frank's money, but it would be good not to have to pay foe every meal.

This quote is reminiscent of a scene in a movie where a criminal, negotiating with a hero, compares himself to the hero. Something like a deranged madmen who thinks violence and murder is justified because it’s for the betterment of humanity comparing himself to someone who saves lives, because they both just want the best in the end. Valentin is a smart guy, and extremely manipulative. He is a cutthroat businessman, and understands that while you have to play by the rules, there are always loopholes and ways to bend them. This is the suspension bridge metaphor, Valentin is saying he wouldn’t quite go as far as to do something blatantly illegal, but presented with the opportunity to usurp Frank’s hot dog business in a somewhat underhanded manner, he would take it. This is just a technique by valentine to convince Frank to give him the thousand dollars for cigarettes, and I tend to think of Valentin more of a salesman than an evil person. He is simply a greedy, self interested guy willing to do almost anything it takes to get what he wants. The exploitation of Frank is not the only instance in which this occurs. He exploits chess players, Isobel, etc. This quote symbolizes Valentin’s views on people and life, that it’s all about himself, and people are simply the tools around him that he needs to use to get what he wants.

The passage describes Valentin and his actions throughout the novel. The analogy to the bridge represents everything about him and how exploits certain people to get them to sway a certain way without "breaking". We all know people like this that are able to take advantage of you without any return. It's interesting how blatant Valentin is though; it is almost like he wants everyone to know what he is doing just to get more pleasue out of it. I had never thought of people like bridges before reading this. It is very interesting way to talk about human nature. People only will give so much before the break down. I keep thinking about the famous Tacoma bridge scene from a while ago. It makes me see an extreme example of what happens when a person has no give and they fall apart faster. On the other hand if someone has too much give they too will fall apart just as easily because they will be more exploited by characters like Valentin. The middle of the road is the balance between the extremes that represents the give and take of everyday life. Unfortunately, in this novel most of the characters have grown up in poor situations and have a clouded vision of when they are supposed to take and when they are supposed to give.

Valentin here is representing himself as a conman. He is a vicious man who will take advanatage of even the weakest, in this case Frank. For him to compare his own exploitation of Frank, to Frank's hot-dog cart is ridiculas. It is two ends of the business spectrum. Not only does he exploit Frank, but also women, and anyone else he can victimize. Although this passage is a askew I think that it can relate to the character of Colleen as well. During the novel we see her commit multiple crimes and exploit people (Frank)(Store owners) and herself (wet Tshirt contest) for the chance at some money. It is amazing the things that people will do to get some of that dirty money!

I really found Valentin to be the most interesting character in Alligator. At one moment I found him to be good hearted, or at least conscious of others, and at other times I found him cold and calculated. One thing that has stuck in my head about him as a character is the description of his childhood in the first chapter he is the focus. By stating he was a chess champion (besides putting him into a really cool category of kids!) Moore provides a crucial point of insight into his character. Chess is a game of calculation, attentative moves and is truly a mind game which is EXACTLY what Valentin does in his life. He learned it young and exploits it til the end.
But he is not the only character in the novel who is looking for this give. Frank does it, Colleen does it, even Beverly. Exploiting the give is a human reaction to competition, but some people are more willing and/or more calculated in their attempts to exploit.

Valentin is ultimately a conman. He is ruthless in taking advantage of anyone and everyone. Valentin was haunted by a harsh childhood. Being the conman that he is he will do anything to exploit everyone, whether it is in games, emotionally or economically. Everyone is roped into Valentin’s exploitation. Isobel is roped in by just being with Valentin. Sarah is right in that the story would be bland if Colleen wouldn’t have taken the money. Colleen is also someone who is extremely ruthless. This is seen in several places, specifically, when she takes Frank’s money or when vandalizing property. She will stick with a plan to the end. This quote definitely shows how he is definitely haunted and disturbed from previous events in his life that have turned him into the animal he is.